Richard Spencer joins us at 47:40
Luke asks about the recent interrupted NPI conference which Richard describes as a success despite being “ejected from the facility” before they were able to finish.
Spencer tells about being threatened by Poland’s defense minister and banned from the entire Schengen Zone.
Vivian asks about Faith Goldy, fired from The Rebel for giving an interview to a Daily Stormer linked podcast.
Spencer:”I think we could all kind of sense she had identitarian leanings…I’m not sure I want to make everyone alt right…I have bashed the alt lite but the reason I bash them is because they attack us…but if an alt lite could exist that wouldn’t do that, that could recognize the truth of our movement…but we’re still in the conservative matrix, the normie matrix…when I bash the alt lite I bash these particular individuals I don’t like…”
Vivian asks about Gavin McGinnis “Well, he’s really reaching out to the butt-plug community.” He goes on to defend him somewhat, but he has a low opinion of most of the alt lite.
He’s not impressed with the alt lite: “These people are not our friends — Mike Cernovich, Jack Posobiec, James O’Keefe, Gavin McInnes. They are all these weird personalities. They’re botched people. The Alt Lite is not sending us their best. They are these strange marginal people. They view us as stealing their thunder. They want to be the edgy no-holds-barred Alt Right. The young hip edgy people. I’ve never viewed them as friends. I viewed them as temporary allies in 2016.”
Luke asks about Jason Jorjani.
Luke: “Why are you the face of the alt right?”
“…I was willing to be out front…I was willing to use my face and name…I have been in this for the long haul, I didn’t just jump on this train…I coined the phrase ‘alt right’…if I don’t say so myself I can be charming and charismatic and provocative…”
Luke asks about Greg Johnson. “He’s attacked you fifteen different ways to Sunday…you almost never respond.”
Spencer: “I really don’t like him as a person, I think he is a bad person, I will be perfectly honest. He is a divisive person who thrives on creating internecine disputes…the kind of things he’s done behind my back that are not public that are actually far more poisonous than anything he’s written…using someone as your reverse compass…he seems to desire to take the opposite perspective on me even though he’s clearly wrong…I actually think I’ve been rather polite in what I’ve had to say about him…I don’t think people like that are good for any movement, they thrive on division…”
Luke asks if Andrew Joyce’s essay “Homosexuality and the Alt Right” changed his “views in any way”.
Spencer: “It actually did…I don’t think it fundamentally change Andrew in a way was criticizing people like me who would say ‘we don’t have to talk about the homosexual question’…Joyce actually…did change my views…I was one of those ‘live and let live’ types.”
Luke: “What can the average person who doesn’t want to get exposed do to support your cause?”
Spencer: “…our cause generally needs funds…support what you like, there are a lot of personalities in this movement…I would say sharing our material with friends and family…at the very least not counter-signalling us to friends and family…a lot us in 2016 with the election of Trump I think we kind of got out ahead of our skis…we…were going to be mainstream…we were going to have people working in the Trump administration…come out of the shadows…that didn’t really happen…we did make a major breakthrough…but…can someone come out to their coworkers as being alt right? …no…I think people can be much more useful by being secret agents…not attending conferences actually…if they are someone in a position of power or influence…they probably should not even attend a conference…we’re in this weird space…our movement is part of the mainstream…millions know there’s an alternative…yet we’re still taboo, maybe more taboo…”
Luke asks about Andrew Anglin. “…I’m not quite sure I quite know what to make of him…I would say this to a normie though, ‘look, he is trolling to a large degree but there’s some insight in there as well’…we do fundamentally different things…but I’m also not going to throw him under the bus…I think having a healthy distance between him and me is the best and he’d agree with that…”
The Daily Shoah. “A very down to earth show.”
Regarding the “hail Trump, hail victory” controversy: “I certainly knew how provocative that would be…our movement should be about winning…
I ask Richard the “when did you get woke?” question. “I don’t think there was one moment.”
We talk about eugenics, China, technology. He rejects the rejection of empire. “…we’re going to have to be engaged in determining the world order…little nationalist Poland will be bulldozed…by China or some other major power…we need to rule…if we don’t someone else will…we need to think geopolitically or someone else will dominate us…we are going to have to think about our civilization on a geopolitical level…”
Luke: “Richard, where do you think Hitler was wrong?”
“I would just ask that we table that for a later time.”